Rob: Freezma. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It's really great to virtually see you
Freezma: You too brother. Good to be here.
Rob: And so you're holed up in isolation in sunny Brisbane or somewhere there.
Freezma: Yeah, yeah, just down on the Gold Coast, so I'm very fortunate to be. I think this is probably one of the best places to be in isolation. Honestly.
Rob: It could be worse. It could be a, you know, minus 20 and snowing outside, right.
Freezma: Exactly, and it's not here, so we're cool.
Rob: So, like, one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you is I know that you're you're obviously currently you're a very prominent, you know, YouTuber very active on Instagram and Facebook, that sort of thing. But one of the interesting things about your profile on YouTube especially is that you've been doing it for quite some time. And, you know, I mean, your profile says it was created about 2011. I think you were posting pretty actively back then as well. Can you tell us, like, you know really briefly how that's kind of changed over almost 10 years of of YouTube? Because it's a pretty different space to what it started out as.
Freezma: Yeah, it's crazy, so, I mean, the one thing that's really changed now is that there's a lot of saturation in it compared to when I first got into it, then that's all of it. But I think that's the most obvious change. That's with anything. Instagram, Facebook, all of them, you know what I mean? So I was fortunate enough to be starting what I was doing in the beginning. But in a sense, as well, the head the mindset of being in social media back then wasn't really so much what it is now. I think a lot of people get into it because they see the opportunities, whereas back then when I was kind of doing it, I could see the opportunity in terms of. There's no doubt when you're building a community of people following you, there's this benefit to that. But really, in terms of kind of knowing about like business and the monetisation side of it, it wasn't kind of clear cut like it is now. I think people just see it is a very powerful tool. But I think back then, more of the creators on there, were just more it was more I feel like it a bit more authentic personally, but. Yeah.
Rob: One thing we haven't mentioned is that you're obviously like in the fitness space and compete in physique competitions and, you know, provide personal training and that sort of thing. And so and it really has evolved in particular in that space. But when you first started out, you were probably more just documenting your journey and sharing what you were doing with no real sort of business intention in mind.
Freezma: Yeah, yeah. There was no real expectation or anything on the on the other end of it. It was more so. I just thought it was cool to be able to get my message out to people who I thought could benefit from it, you know?
Rob: And because, I mean, the whole the volume of traffic has changed pretty substantially, too. I mean, you've got 40000 followers on, 40000 subscribers on YouTube and about 140000 between YouTube, Instagram and Facebook. But I mean, back 10 years ago, having 500 followers was, you know, pretty good. And having a couple of thousand was sort of a big deal. Right?
Freezma: Definitely, man. It's insane because, I mean, personally, I actually started on Facebook was my where I started with most of my posting and building an audience. YouTube was I think I just ended up uploading a couple of vids that did good on Facebook. I just put them on YouTube because I wasn't on Youtube as much, but I just kind of got them up for the sake of it. And then it was probably I must have been around 2014, 2015. I started seeing, like YouTube was really where it was at in terms of building a close and deep relationship with people because Facebook just started to cut its reach and promote a bit more marketing. So it was a couple of years there where it just really just slashed the kind of reach that I had felt that on my Facebook page. So I think that's when I kind of turned more to YouTube.
Rob: Because early on Facebook page algorithm was it really would weight it almost the same as having a friend, whereas now they're really geared towards, you know, it's a pay to play sort of sort of operation. And, you know, it does get some reach. But there was a very marked change in how those, you know, those likes on Facebook would actually be able to engage with your content and without without them liking or sharing or something, you know, and providing a real hard interaction. There was there was so little of your content actually getting seen.
Freezma: Yeah, it's insane. Like like literally back when Facebook, you know, when I was first on it, the reach was just like for perspective. Yeah. Maybe I would have like it was definitely a huge percentage of people seeing every post that I ever did. It was. It must have been upwards of 80 percent outside seeing
Freezma: Everything. Definitely.
Rob: And so was that when you saw the most of the growth in in Facebook originally was like did you or what it was it still sort of comparable to YouTube in terms of volume?
Freezma: Definitely not. Facebook was like where it really started for me. That's because even I feel like YouTube didn't really even start to get. Because now YouTube is like extremely popular. It probably didn't start to get more on the popular side until maybe like three years ago, I'd say I see a lot more people that are on YouTube watching YouTube videos, doing research through YouTube and all that. But I think you. Yeah, before like in 2016, 2015, YouTube was still even though Youtube has been around since 2009. Still I feel like it wasn't even mainstream back then. I feel it's just the last three years. Maybe Youtube has become a bit more mainstream. But for me, Facebook was always that was the platform that most people were on anyway. You know, in terms of whether you're looking for stuff to follow, like everyone's on there for their friends and their connections, it's that network. So that was a real big one for me, building my brands at the start in terms of who I am and my fitness content. Facebook was huge for me for sure. And then and then, like I said, once they started slashing the reach and going, more towards that paid model. You know, they want you to advertise for your followers to see. That's when I transitioned into YouTube because YouTube wasn't doing that. So it's just, you know, a lot more bang for your buck, I guess, on YouTube. And I like on YouTube, it's it's more long form content. So you can really get a lot more of a message out there is on Facebook. People scrolling feeds and they're not always there for long form. They just want to scroll past us.
Rob: Yeah, I mean, there's really a it's sort of about platform appropriate content, and I guess as a content creator, how do you approach that these days where, you know, Instagram has has really that small nugget content. Facebook has, you know, from a minute to ten minutes maybe, you know, or going to long form and then YouTube. I mean, their algorithm is specifically geared to ten minutes plus. So how do you how do you approach that from a content creation standpoint and how you kind of think about that ahead of time?
Freezma: Yeah, I mean, this is definitely like it's funny because for me, I have always put a lot of my focus on YouTube, but I've always done Instagram as well in terms of Facebook. My you know, quite often I don't even have a posting strategy for Facebook. Um, I just share something oddly from my Instagram because there is a little bit of audience there. But I've been pretty slack with that. I've really kind of just gone off Facebook. So mainly like my. My business is pretty leveraged on Instagram and and YouTube. But it's interesting, even with YouTube, like I always kind of underated Instagram, I thought I you know, it's just too short form. Can't build as much of a connection with people. But the Instagram has always really supplemented my YouTube very well. So I pick up a lot of clients in terms of my my online personal training. They'll almost get the they know who I am from YouTube because they've watched some long format for my videos. I feel like they can get a better gauge on me personally. And then Instagram is kind of that communication platform where people can actually DM me and say, hey, you know, I want to be a client or something like that. So you message me about when I share some Gym Steeze like some photos on Instagram with the new Gym Steeze. They'll say oh yeah looks cool and but whereas YouTube doesn't really have that communication aspect to it. So I think that's kind of. Something that's. Yeah I've always thought Youtube is the main thing. But Instagram's just as important for me anyway, because that's where I have a lot of interaction with people.
Rob: Yeah, I mean, it is interesting watching I mean, YouTube comment fields are notoriously trollish in terms of,
Freezma: They're very trolly, yeah exactly, right.
Rob: And it's very interesting to watch, whereas on Instagram it is fairly personal and, you know, still the Internet. But it's a you know, it is more engaging in in the conversation. And whereas YouTube seems to be just just strange comments around other
Freezma: Yeah, yeah
Rob: You know, the dog in the background of
Freezma: I'll tell you why. It's because people who have YouTube accounts. There's nothing personal links to it. It's it's. Whereas Instagram people are on Instagram, again, similar to Facebook because of what the connections are, friends and everything on there. They're posting their lives. Most people don't have a YouTube account where they're actively showing their profile. So it just I guess that's got to be the reason why because. Yeah. I mean, this is still anonymous anonymous accounts on Instagram. But
Rob: Sure. And you can create a new one quickly but it helps reduce that that incidence rate. So you touched on something interesting there. You've got your Gym Steeze merch store and that sort of thing. One thing I think that people really over estimate or maybe underestimate is how easily they can just slip in and just pummel ads into content. And, you know, obviously, that's that's how, well one of your revenue streams for monetising content is by selling merchandise. How have you found or what do you see that the mistakes or the things that really do work for you in terms of not getting too hard on the sell and and engaging and, you know, content first and and sell second because people are developing a connection with you and then want to support you sort of as a secondary thing, you know. Got any thoughts around that?
Freezma: Yeah, I think it's I mean, it's it's a really deep. Yeah, I like the idea of just doing more of a sales tactic and then providing good quality content with no expectation. It's so different. Yet they both have their time and place. You know what I mean? So realistically. Yeah. A lot of the time when I say, oh, yo, guys, I'm doing a new Gym Steeze launch here's the stuff. There is a percentage of people buying because they like the way it looks there's a percentage of people buying because they like my brand and who I am and they want to support me. And because they appreciate content that I'll put out for free for so many year, or the way I make them feel, whether it's a message or something like that. But, you know, there's that factor which kind of still comes into that decision to purchase or buy into the brands. So it's. They both exist, but they're they're both, you know, sometimes I feel like for me personally, I'm not a hard enough seller. I. I am too, in the mind space of just putting out good stuff just without trying to monetise it. But then I think sometimes that screws me up because I'm not consistent in terms of like. It's different for Gym Steeze, I feel I feel like Gym Steeze is perfect because it's like, even some of my coaching. There's an interesting relationship there where you'll see some people, they're more structured in terms of their sales and they're just trying to do sales. But they actually can be quite successful at that if they've got a good product. And then there's that other side I said of, you know, you're giving out stuff without the expectation. But a lot of the time then when you do hit them with a sell, well, there's something to buy that, you know, your audience is interested in. They get amongst it because they appreciate all the hours you've put out without asking for anything. So.
Rob: Because I mean, it's a really counterproductive, oh, sorry, counterintuitive strategy for a lot of our clients work, you know, in a more typical space. And when it comes to pure social media advertising, it's it's fairly easy to demonstrate the metrics on that. You can you can push a you know, advertise a product through social media, with paid advertising, with a reliable return and a, you know, reliable cost per click and all that sort of thing. But this strategy is a little bit harder to put, you know, clear roadmap on and demonstrate. If you put out a hundred videos and, you know, a thousand hours of content, then you will be able to sell. You know, it's really hard to demonstrate that without actually doing it because it is such a dynamic thing. But
Freezma: Yeah, yeah.
Rob: And I think what you've touched on there in terms of monetising and all the rest is I think a lot of people think most of the revenue comes from YouTube monetisation, you know, for a for a YouTuber or someone doing vlogging and things like that. I think there is an assumption that a lot of the money comes from actual, you know, views and monetised videos. But from my understanding, it's it is more about the merchandising and that's sort of secondary sales. The the online coaching, the merchandise store, all that sort of thing. Is that sort of true to what you how you sort of see things?
Freezma: Yeah, definitely a lot of people assume that monetisation is a real big thing and Youtube and they assume that if I see someone who looks like they're really successful, one YouTube with money and stuff like that, a lot of people assume it's mainly from the ads on the YouTube vids. And this to an extent. But yeah, like when you actually look at the percentages of it. Like what? In terms of what I get paid, even even I know people who do make good money from the ads. But then again, they've got, you know, a few hundred thousand subscribers to be making kind of all right just off the monetisation. But what that pays in terms of how much effort you put into your bids, it's it's not. It's not much it it makes your videos not worth it. And then. But, yeah, if you look at the way you can pick up clients, if you've got one hundred thousand subscribers or whatever it is, it's like that percentage is just I'm trying to put a figure on it for you and I'm like, it's got to be at least. You know, 10 to 20. Yeah, it's going to be at least around like 20 times the monetisation, I think.
Rob: From. From non, not indirect sales, effectively, so. Yeah. Ten, 10 or 20 per cent from. Oh, five percent. If it's 20 times, say, five percent from YouTube and the rest from the sideline businesses.
Freezma: Yeah, I would honestly say not even that it's not like 20 percent more, it's like 20 times more. Like,
Rob: Yes. So 5 percent of total. Yeah, it would be from Youtube.
Freezma: Oh, yes, about five percent.
Freezma: Yeah, exactly. No. Yes, I misunderstood you.
Rob: No, that's okay. It's an interesting sort of thing, and I think a lot of content creators go in with no real plan because it does come from a bit of a an organic sort of approach. And it's just I wanna create content because I want to create content. But there is a certain certain business sense even to posting YouTube content itself in terms of thumb nailing and and, you know, a little bit click baiting. And effectively, YouTube's a big video search engine. So, you know, it's it really takes some thought and some structure and strategy to get that right. And have you, have you sort of had to adapt. But in particular, YouTube over time to to cater for that?
Freezma: Definitely. The last three years with YouTube is really, I'd say about three years ago was when that stuff really started to matter. Before that, it was like you could literally put no effort into a thumbnail and entitle you a video and you'd still have a large percentage of your subscribers clicking. Somehow, your vids would still end up with just as much views from recommended and people seen on search pages. But now it's it's just so competitive in terms of capturing of the initial attention. There is just so many voices and people on the platform so that that's always been something where maybe I, I haven't adapted as well because I've always come from a place of just not overthinking content and just trying to organically, like, put out stuff. But it's definitely gotten to you know over the last three years at that point where you really you actually have to structure the way you're at least going to put a title on your vids or the thumbnail before you even make the vid. And you'll even see like I don't know I've a lot lately with people I know who used to just kind of organically do content similar to myself. They've kind of gone in a lot more tunnel vision in terms of like like in terms of making the video itself very specific and just really talking about a specific topic which is mentioned in the thumbnail or title a few years ago was kind of like you could mention something in your thumbnail and title and you could have a 20 minute blog. And then there's like two minutes where it kind of references to the thumbnail and title. Now I see a lot of people, you know, thinking in advance, like what's going to be a good video and then titling them, doing the thumbnail and then just making the whole video. You know, the whole 10 to 20 minutes, like on that topic specifically. So definitely the way content is being put out has definitely changed.
Rob: So, I mean, that's sort of becomes a fairly straightforward process if you're deliberately producing videos saying, you know how to lift a deadlift form or a training video or something like that. But a lot of your content is vlogging as well. How does that play in and how can you sort of pre predict or preplan vlog to kind of cater for that niche? You know, do you have to sort of do things in your life deliberately for the vlog, or you know, or do you kind of just find a way to make it fit?
Freezma: It is one of those things that even I'm trying to adapt to that now mentally, because my whole thing has always been. Sometimes I feel torn between just trying to make some content and then or just showing what I'm actually doing any way because. I don't even have to think about it, and it's just really authentic. So, again, like I was saying, with a structured sales approach or the giving without expectation and building a brand, like it's those two things which is so different, but you just kind of have to find how you can work things together. And that is sometimes it's not an easy answer. And a lot of the time you have people suit different styles. Like, for me, I, I struggle sometimes I'll try like experiment and just make a vid on a specific topic. But like for me, that just doesn't really come naturally because it's always. But maybe that's just because I had so many years of it. I didn't need to specifically come up with anything. I could just document my life and I'll get the results that way. So just like that programming in my head is, you know, I'm trying to to to change it.
Rob: Guess it comes back to that that organic approach that you started with as well. One thing I often note with vloggers and YouTubers in particular is the sort of the attrition rate of of content creators like they. There seems to be a high element of burnout. And, you know, obviously, consistency is of production is something that's super important. And if I'm not mistaken, I think you had a little break in in sort of in between your content career to some extent as well. How important do you think consistency is? And you know, how much of a strain does that put on people in terms of, you know, if you're producing videos every every day or even every week? That's still a lot of production even doing this now, you know. And it's a it's a fairly straightforward thing. It's the energy that goes into it on both sides. Before the call. After the call. You know, it's huge if you're doing that as a vlog and you're showing aspects of your life throughout the day. That's a pretty huge burden to take.
Freezma: Yeah, yeah, that definitely is, and that's something that's. Yeah, like I agree. Like the consistency is the people who you see most successful on any platform, whether it's Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, it is that consistency of, I think, being very. Instead of being so generalised so here's here's my problem is I've kind of built I've built in audience who liked me from over the years, I've kind of moved with what I've been consistent and so some there's been points of my life where I've been really consistent for a couple of years and fitness and putting that out to my audience. And then there was a couple of years where I went off fitness altogether and I just was making entertaining vlogs. And then I was kind of picking up new audiences from these different things. And then now I've kind of got like this mixed audience where sometimes if I post, you know, fitness specific video, I've lost the audience of the people who have just joined because I wanted to be entertained. And it goes vice versa as well with the other things and as other people a lot of people I know, like my vids, especially my a lot of my original vids I was doing I was kind of going very deep into topics on life and talking about things that most other people were really talking about and then that kind of audience that people really just love that content. But honestly, I feel like it's left me in a spot now, like I'm not. Growing as much as I would like, because I feel like I've been too dispersed over too much stuff when I really look at people who are successful in terms of at least growing their channels. It's when they just consistently in line with a certain way of posting or a topic or is it is really just kind of catering to that niche. Like, every time you post something, people almost know what it's about already because you always post about that. And I feel like. For me, like sometimes I wish I could just be like that. But for me, I just. I've got so many sides to me that I can't just go down that route at least authentically.
Rob: I think it's a bit of a challenge from a personal aspect. I can assume because we do evolve over time and what's important to us, what we're focused on can be important. And if you're deliberately catering for a specific audience and what they want to see, you know, and we see that with content creators, especially in particular niche say, you know, prominent vegan YouTubers or something who decide maybe that's not for them anymore. And they come out and they they basically lose their audience overnight because they go in a different direction. And and they may be one of the more extreme cases of that happening. But say you go from training videos to yeah philosophy about life, which, you know, I've seen happen with a few channels and they have, you know, two, three million subscribers in some case, but maybe their video gets 5000 views now. And, you know, you can see how, you know, the impact that that that that that's having. But you go back a little bit and they've got, you know, hundreds of thousands, millions of views on on some of these videos. So I guess it's yeah. You kind of have to roll with it, but you carry your audience with you as much as you can.
Freezma: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm like fortunate, I feel like I've got it good. Like most of my audience, I think can appreciate the fact that I've got so many different sides. But in terms of like just strategically, if you're just all about business and trying to grow your brand for your business. I think it is very important to just niche down and just try to own that niche and put out just like consistent content that people always kind of know what they are getting from you. And then that way as well, like if you're trying to sell a product on the back of it. People know how much, you know, consistently you've put out on one piece of you know, like in one industry or whatever it is that like you're kind of their go to purchase, you know, for that person.
Rob: Makes sense.
Freezma: But then again, like like for me, I just can't authentically just like for me, I think because I've come from a spot of being able to just put out content and grow my audience with just whatever I feel like putting out in the early days because it's changed so much. Like like I said, I've kind of got that the way of thinking in my head where it's. Yeah, just its just different to how it is now. See, most people now they're looking at these avenues in terms of like this is just business opportunity and what's the opportunity here? But for me, I haven't even come into that. Into this space with that. So it's something I like learn as it develops and I see it. And then sometimes I kind of go with it and say, OK, I need to start doing this now. And now other times I'm just like, I don't want to do this. So why should I?
Rob: Yeah, you want to put out the content that you want to put out, not just to toe the line and make a couple of bucks.
Freezma: Honestly, you'll find, you'll find a lot of sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you. But yeah, you find a lot of people that end up very unhappy because they're they've moved on personally from the content that they're putting out and their audience is demanding, but the audience is demanding and like they feel almost trapped. You know what I mean? I've seen that happen to a few friends of mine and even just big people. And around the place you see it.
Rob: Makes sense. Well, yeah. And then that sort of forced to put out the content that they don't want to just to keep the money coming in.
Freezma: Yeah. Or if they do pivot off, like like you said. You see them just lose all their views and a lot of people tune out. So it's it's. It's an interesting thing. Social media.
Rob: I suppose because it's it's sort of, you know, it revolves around yourself as well. So it's not like you can, you know, sell the channel and and go off and do something else, you know.
Rob: You know, you might but it may not be too successful for the person that takes it over because they're really invested in you. That's one thing that we often do in business is look for like joint venture partnerships and things like that and how two businesses can work together. And I saw you do something similar with Vitruvian Physique, which is actually how you became how you came on my radar. Where you you basically made a video about him. And so for those of us watching who don't know who this is, this is another YouTuber who is based in Canada. And so I'm curious to know, was there a real deliberate kind of you know, we see YouTubers do a lot of collaboration videos and that sort of thing. Was there a deliberate sort of reach out there to try and make something happen? Or would it just really come from a genuine place and it had you know good benefits from there?
Freezma: Yeah, that was that was cool, honestly, with that. I mean, collaboration is so strong in the field of of YouTube, you know, like if you're struggling to get on people, you know, in terms of doing popular videos or something that's coming up on people's recommended. If you don't have, like my momentum or if you lose about momentum, you know, if you can be featured on another person's channel who has a very active audience, you know, it's a very powerful thing. And that's why I see a lot of people on YouTube. They coordinate to do collaborations and make very specific arrangements to do it. But yeah, like with me, I've never gone down that route of trying to collaborate with many people, and, again, whether that's something that maybe I shouldn't have, I don't know. I remember there was a point a few years ago where I saw a lot of people collaborating and then, you know, I'm on the other side of the industry. So I kind of know. Motives behind everything and I don't know. I know people would just organising to collab just just in terms of the business point of view. They weren't actually friends. They didn't actually have a relationship. And it just kind of like it is what it is like that. Which is why I never really reached out to people. I only like to do collabs or anything like that if it's organic, but you when like me and Vitruvian did the back and forth video. That was I mean, his video was the first one. He said that he was doing his comm prep and he was looking ahead at me, who is a few weeks ahead in terms of doing my comm prep, and then that was a source of, I guess, motivational competition or something to just kind of hold him a bit more accountable and push him. So that was like not planned at all. He just I just randomly saw the video.
Rob: I've actually got that backwards because he he actually did shout you out before you responded to him, didn't he?
Freezma: Yeah, yeah, exactly, so and that was cool, I saw that video. Oh, yeah. This is, you know, I wouldn't have known otherwise. Like, I mean, I do I know you go like from from a few years ago when he first moved to the Gold Coast. So he wasn't like a random guy I didn't know. But where I think we did like maybe one or two vids back when I was on the Gold Coast. But again, that was just after meeting up with them. And and just, you know, we kind of. Well, I maybe we could collab or whatever, but, you know, I always want to meet a person before I just say, hey, let's collab. It's like, you know, so we met up and trained a few times before hand, even before we first did a video together. But I guess, yeah, this is like three years later. And then he just randomly kind of gave me that feature on his channel, which was, you know, very appreciated for myself as a smaller YouTube channel. You know, I thought that was really cool. And I I guess I did the other video back to him, which actually did get a lot of views and then a lot of his audience like yourself, you say, and even you saw me from me doing the vid about him. Right?
Rob: Yeah, exactly. It's, um, and it's all about that exposure because, I mean, we we watch, especially in in the fitness industry, there's certain pockets where you may have half a dozen or a dozen prominent YouTubers all in the same. You know, half of them even live together. And, you know, parts of Canada, parts of America especially. Do you think that there's a real limit in opportunities for someone in Australia or New Zealand because we are halfway around the world?
Freezma: Yes, it's definitely a lot harder down here.
Rob: Do you think that there is some benefit to being unique and stand out against perhaps, you know, sort of the American as well, like everyone everyone loves Aussies and Kiwis, right?
Freezma: Yeah, I mean, you're asking some good questions Rob. That's because it's funny, because this is stuff that I genuinely think about myself, you know. But like, it's crazy because the American audience is just so huge that I would have thought maybe I would be interesting to Americans. And I thought. You know, maybe I could grow a lot out of getting American subscribers, but I just don't think they understand, like the mass appeal of Americans I think they love other Americans.
Rob: Because I think it can go one way or the other as well. Like I know a YouTuber in a very different industry. Who is who is Sydney based, who has an extraordinary American audience and and as a.
Freezma: I could never get it, Rob. I tried.
Rob: Yeah. I mean, maybe it's maybe a few more shout outs or, you know,
Rob: Got go, go and go and train with Christian Guzman or someone that. But you know what might happen. So what do you think? What would you say over the last sort of 10 years, which is an extraordinary content career. What would you say the biggest lesson that you've come out with is, you know, regarding anything whether its content focus or monetisation or or anything?
Freezma: Biggest lesson. That's another good question. It's funny because when I when I came into the the field of putting out content and doing stuff online, like I said, it was when it wasn't popular to do so. So and there was not as much saturation in the market. So in a sense, I was fortunate to. To build my audience like I did and have the reach that I did and get the opportunities that I did. But I definitely now looking back, I realise like. Its interesting, I always try to think, hey, if I started if I had to start my YouTube channel from zero right now, like, would I be able to to do it again? Because the climate was so different back then. So the one thing I've learned. I mean, I don't know something I'm like into the look at right now is just man. Honestly, that's a tough question for me because I've learned so much. But.
Rob: Top three, top three?
Freezma: Top three. Yes, that's right. I was going to say. I was gonna say something along the lines of putting out something like authentic and always comes up. But I know people that aren't authentic and they put out content and then they actually become really popular.
Freezma: Coming back from YouTube and social media and stuff like that. I'm like one thing that I like as a lesson, I guess is. Like why? You really. You got me, like, deep in my head right now if you go from here.
Rob: How about how about I give you another question and maybe maybe something else will pop back in your head? I'm curious to know, obviously, where we touched on it at the start. We're in, you know, isolation in most parts. And with Covid and that sort of the thing. How as a personal trainer, has that affected you? Obviously, you you're like an online coach predominantly, I'm guessing more than in person. So the physical changes haven't been so much. But if you have all these personal trainers suddenly going online and the market becomes saturated with personal trainers because they can't work out of gyms, has there been an effect for someone like yourself who's been an online trainer for a longer time?
Freezma: I don't think I've seen an effect in terms of any more competition coming in. But I feel like I've seen a lot of people who are PTs in the gym. They're struggling more than ever because they lost everything and they haven't had the, I guess, existing platforms like I do. But in saying that as well, even just a lot of their methods of training, predominantly based around gym equipment and, you know, barbells and like, you know, a full gym setup, basically. So you're finding it even like myself. A lot of my training was really based around that before we went into this situation. So for me, I at the start, I was adapting with, like, how how can I make bodybuilding workouts with water jugs, which is something people can have easy access to.
Rob: Sure, yeah.
Freezma: And I saw actually a lot of success from that. You know, I drove a lot of people to my website for the free program, which I was giving away, which, again, there was no sell on. There was no direct sell or sale strategy as opposed to I mean, I guess it's it's kind of a strategy in terms of you're giving people value. But again, it's with no expectations. So I'm not expecting them to just, like, buy more stuff off me if they if they do see the value and then they see other stuff on my Web site. They see my coaching there like, that's cool. I actually have seen some purchases and new clients on the back of that that what I did there. But yeah, like I was saying even even for that. Training with the water jugs and stuff that's just like an an adapt an adaptment. So, like adapting what we you know, I had to do personally but then I started thinking, OK. What other training can I do? So yeah. Like, for me personally, these last four weeks I've been outside really just trying to expand my knowledge base. Well, I can do a body weight training. Different varieties of, you know. Anything I can do. Just using my body like push ups is at least, you know, if you got some handles, medicine, ball and, you know, there's so many different variations and things you can do. And like for me, I'm just trying to learn new ways to train and drill those in and get really good at those so that I can come out of this with more experience and, you know, an alternative way instead of just with the gyms and stuff like that. But again, same for like usual, PTs who have lost their jobs and stuff. I guess they're either having to do the same or a lot of them are just screwed, you know.
Rob: But I guess you're you're able to put the time into adapting and, you know, improving knowledge and upgrading your programs and that sort of thing. You've already got the sales processes and you've already got a good audience. Well, that sort of thing. So I guess they're playing catch up to you rather than you seeing an influx of new competition.
Freezma: Yeah. Yeah, it is definitely a bit more like that, but and saying that as well, it's not like. I think, yeah, even for for the first couple of weeks of this, I mean, I'm just speaking for myself personally, I felt. Yeah, my business was affected in terms of even just with the majority of people tightening up with with their money. And I know a lot of friends of mine who do online coaching and they've already had a big customer base. And they do weekly payments of people also going to one friend, you know. This is his his livelihood and income and everything is his online coaching. And he lost seventy five percent of his clients
Freezma: Just like that pretty much in the first couple of weeks of this going down with people saying, hey, we've lost their jobs or whatever the cases. And that happens to a lot of people. But again, I guess it's just being able to provide people an alternative, I know for him, I know a lot of his stuff. Was gym based online coaching, which, you know, people don't have access to the gyms anymore. So if you can get a real fast turnaround in terms of, hey, don't worry that we don't have a gym, I can offer you some kind of relief in terms of, you know, really good body weight, home workout. So just something where you can really just. Justify how you can keep helping someone through this time. And if you can't do that, you're screwed. And I've still and I've seen a lot of online coaches that were really quick on doing that and making that change and seeing what they could do at home with resistance bands and not much. And then really putting that on display in terms of their advertising and their marketing. So, you know, people have been screwed who haven't been able to adapt fast enough and there's people who have been OK because they've adapted pretty quick. But for me personally as well, like I said, I started off with, water jugs, which, you know, has helped a lot of people, I think. Well, you know, I know from messages I've got the amount of sign ups since my Website
Rob: Yeah, right.
Freezma: To get that, you know, those free programs. But for me personally, again, that wasn't enough. I wanted to see what else I can do. So the last four weeks I've just been practicing with so many new, different ways of training outdoors and and seeing what I can do with my body. And I'm not putting that out in a program or anything yet because I want to put myself through it to see how effective it really is or how I can really make a great program from new stuff I'm learning. But yeah, it's just adapting isn't it yeah.
Rob: So awesome. So one curiosity I've got as well, because you didn't intend to go into, say, merchandising it. It was sort of a monetisation exercise or, you know, a revenue exercise. Were there any challenges in terms of, you know, finding finding retailers, managing stock? You know, all that sort of thing? Because that's all. It's quite a lot to learn in a short space of time. And if you get the formula wrong, it can cost you a lot of money too.
Freezma: Yeah, it's interesting you say that, too. You might not know, Rob, but for me, my clothing brand was before my social media.
Rob: I didn't know that.
Freezma: Yeah. Yeah. So lot, because here's here's the issue, like a lot of people, have come into these spaces and building online audiences and then they get into their merch and all that kind of stuff. But there's a difference between merch and then an actual clothing company which sits
Rob: Of course.
Freezma: On its own brands. You know what I mean? So, yeah, a lot of the time someone does merch as an extension of themselves. And there's like a way to monetise on what they're putting out, whether it's entertaining, content, whatever it is for me. I've always had my clothing brand, so that's been before I've put out any contents online. I always wanted to make my brands. And so I made my brand before I was even putting out active content on Facebook and that kind of stuff. But even so, he has come back to your questions. It's been a huge process of you learn you learn a lot. A lot of the thing the thing with clothing is and I've heard people say this before us, it's almost like the low hanging fruit of entrepreneurship, especially for young people. I think they get excited. They see clothing brands are like and they like, well, I can make this design on a shirt and then I can sell my own brands and be an entrepreneur myself because it's not hard to do that. But it's hard to consistently do that over years. And, you know, develop new products like this. There's a lot more to it. And even just being on the edge with new designs and seeing what's coming in. And again as well, I think one big misconception people have with clothing is that let's say you can get a T-shirt printed for, let's say like fourteen, fifteen dollars Australian or whatever it is, and then you can sell it for 40 that or 45 or even 50 that you have got that profit margin. But a lot of people don't realise there's more to it than just the the margins on the product itself. And it's you know, it's it's, you know, paying a videographer to create a marketing campaign or something like that, paying a model or at least giving them a shirt or something, which, you know, everything you're doing is offsetting that margin of what you just might look at the one thing and say oh the margin is, 300 percent on this product. So I'm going to be sweet. And then when you have to divide this, say, fifty shirts into different sizes with percentages, you have to work out which percentage is going to sell the most, which is going to sell the least. And for every shirt that you don't sell, that's money that you haven't recuperated into your profit margin. So there's just so much stuff like that that people just don't even think about. So even for me, the issue has always been just refining, like especially about the sizing ratio, I think is a big one that people I think is if if you get too many size smalls and then none of them sell, but you sold heaps of larges, all the smalls you didn't sell offset your profit margin pretty heavy from the ones you did sell.
Rob: Yes. And then you you get get stuck with stock that you just can't move regardless of how hard you try.
Freezma: And you can't move it. I literally have in my cupboard, there is just so many size smalls of everything from the last four years of me running that over here. They just literally all sitting in my cupboard. I just took them off the website, I took all the smalls off. And I don't do size smalls anymore.
Rob: Well, I guess that's yeah, that some of that iterative model and you can refine the process over time. And another thing, I suppose you have compared to someone just starting up. You've learned those lessons already. And so you can, you know, benefit more quickly out of out of something. But.
Freezma: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Rob: So where do you see where do you see things going? And we still see a lot of confusion with Tik Tok. And, you know, and Snapchat and everything and and while it, you can develop strategies for those most brands that we see playing, especially on Tik Tok. They're just having a crack to see what comes out of it. You know, you sort of watching those things closely or are you just focused on what's working for now and, you know, just put it keeping a bit of an eye on them. But not sure really what to do yet.
Freezma: Yeah, I'm pretty much in that that space of keeping a bit of an eye on it, dabbling with it. Tik Tok is a real interesting what I've seen. I mean, I was on it, maybe eight months ago. And I started posting a couple of vids and got a little bit of traction, but then I just. I kind of stop posting, and I just put, you know, for whatever reason I was just taking a break from this is interesting to see now like. Yeah. 8 months later, you can see it's definitely a heavy player in the marketplace. I'm seeing a lot of brands actually using it very successfully to get their clothes on people who have big followings and stuff. Something I've noticed a lot lately. So there's definitely like opportunities. And I think if you come if you come into any social media platform like you were saying, I think you summed it up quite well at the start of the chat. You said in terms of the timeframes of what people might spend on each platform, you said like Instagram was just kind of like the, you know, zero to thirty seconds or whatever. Facebook, maybe the ones ten minutes people will be doing stuff on and then YouTube's that ten minute plus vids again, Tik Tok is a new one as well where it's extra short isn't it. So but it's, it's just you got to like anything you just got to analyse it. And see if you're looking at it as a business opportunity, as a way to maybe monetise off. You just got to look at the characteristics of the platform and see what's it's pretty easy to see what will do well you know what I mean, that's just the way you've got to look at anything, isn't it?
Rob: Yeah. Exactly right. And I think the interesting thing about anyone putting out content regularly with any decent success is that you you are effectively data analysts in a you know, in some way because you have to be looking at these statistics of what's performing and what's not, or you put all your energy, say, into Facebook content, as you said, that that maybe isn't getting the reach. Whereas Instagram and YouTube is what you found works for you. Did you get any surprises along the way when you sort of looked at data and something's really over or underperformed unexpectedly?
Freezma: I mean it. I guess it's a good question. But like, I feel like not. Not really. It's funny, like you almost you can say you think you gonna make a viral video. You think this is going to do great. And then sometimes it flops. But then in hindsight, when you see a viral video like, well, this is why viral is because of this, this and this. But then you got to try to recreate that. And and you can't sometimes there's an element of, yeah, when you can see what's working, it's like I that still works. But then sometimes you'll try and actually do something and you think it's going to work because the characteristics and it just doesn't. So it's an interesting model. You're always I guess you get just got to be experimenting, just trying to put put stuff in there and seeing how it goes. Yes. The only thing you can do isn't it.
Rob: Yeah, I mean, one thing that we noticed with with client work in particular is, you know, the more authentic it is, the easier it is to produce and the more reliable the results. So you may not get, say, you know, a million views, but if you can put out 100 videos that get 10000 views, then you still get there. But that, you know, you can't predict that viral nature. And, you know, so I guess, do you really advocate just, you know, doing what you know and sort of, you know, having a bit of a dabble in in something unique, but really just sort of sticking to the plan and evolving it over time gradually.
Freezma: Yeah, I think I think your best bet. And they need like let's say if you're a business or an individual, whatever. Even me as an I'm a business and I'm an individual, but I'm still always trying to ideally. You want to. I want to be monetising and be able to make a living off what I do, obviously. So I find that as long as you're just being authentic with the message that you want to put out or your business, if you're being authentic with the products, you want to put out what your products can do for people. That's all you can do. I've been I've been down routes where I've tried to just get really, really popular and just try to be viral. We'll see what's like trending or what's going on. And I've ended up just failing at it. Whether it's maybe it's done alright, but it hasn't done anything for my business. Maybe it's going to be a few more followers. But is it even the followers that I want? Because someone gets a lot of views. Doesn't mean they're all people that are going to buy your stuff. If especially if it's something that you're doing something different to go viral, then it's not even in relation to your business. You know what I mean? So I think that for anyone out there, like, that's really important to understand. Like you were saying before, we know people with millions of followers who struggle to monetise and they may know people with you, a few hundred followers or a few thousand just a couple of thousand followers and they monetise insanely well on these platforms. And I think that's that's the main thing. You just got to try not to get statistics of likes or views or whatever messed up with the statistics of your actual business ends. You're, you know, margins and revenue you know.
Rob: Yeah, so, I mean, how important is it to to, you know, really find those genuine followers and, you know, how do you not get caught up in the metrics? You know, we ran an interesting experiment. I credit a brand new Instagram account, and we're actually making a video about this piece in a little while and paid one hundred and sixty dollars to get 10000 likes just to essentially gather data to prove this point. And, you know, because you can you can poorly monetise, you know, followers. And these guys don't care who I am, what I do. You know, I think two and a half thousand of them have already fallen back off, you know, and. And so it's it's hard as people not to get caught up in the vanity metrics of social media. You know, how do you kind of stay true to your purpose? And, you know, is it purely from that, you know, the sales data will prove you right? Or is it just are you just super Zen and and really just know what to do?
Freezma: It's all as myself, even like for all the years I've had this that's been a big thing for me to shift my headspace around as the likes and the views and changing that into the perspective of because I've always associated popularity and massive attention with you're just definitely successful. But what happens when you have to do something different to be popular or that that's not really in line with you or your business? You know what I'm saying? It just doesn't feel right and even. Yeah. Like, my biggest challenge over these last couple of years is just remembering and realising that. There's my business and some like. Like sometimes I'll post a video on YouTube showing, like, my new Gym Steeze launch or something like that. And the vid gets the least views out of all my vids for the last few months. Yet I've managed to sell thousands of dollars of products. But yeah, I'm thinking, oh, this look, this vid did shit, its only got ninety likes on my Youtube channel compared to usual maybe 200 likes or something like that. Yet because of that vid I've made all this money yet I'm upset that it's got half the likes or views of one of my other vids. It's just it's kind of stupid.
Rob: I think it's the unseen metric of all this data as well, as you can say, the likes. But you can never assume how much of that is converting into sales or, you know, through whatever means supporting that channel.
Freezma: Yes, and that's what's hard when you're doing stuff organically, when you've got actual marketing strategy and paying for advertising campaigns, construct and advertising campaigns. You get that data all laid out to you. So and that's something that I'm kind of trying to understand and learn, because for me, I've always technically I've had it easy because I've had a good organic reach where I can make a living without having to pay for advertising. But I'm now like, I'm trying to get my head around the the advertising model. And because you can see it's it it's a bit less of a headache when you can actually see what's doing what and the exact numbers behind it whereas sometimes for me I struggle because it's. It's just random. You know what I'm saying? I don't know, sometimes I don't know what caused this month to be better than the last month cause, you know, for whatever reason.
Rob: Didn't really change anything, it just just was. I mean, I think one one interesting thing that you'll see is when you do start to, you know, move paid promotions and you've got a organic audience to springboard from anyway. Typically, the conversion cost from the advertising will be much, much lower. And it's sort of sort of helps activate your organic audience. And it's sort of a supplement as opposed to, you know, someone starting from cold might be paying a dollar dollar to a click, but you might get to get it for 10 cents because you've got that warm audience. And, you know, and that
Freezma: Yeah, yeah.
Rob: That rate of conversion will be so much higher. So I think that's going to be
Freezma: Yeah, yeah I mean, that's definitely true. Like, there's been points I don't. I haven't done much cold advertising with any of my stuff. But, you know, sometimes I I dabble in the Facebook ads platform and it's a lot easier for me to put my new Gym Steeze campaign or if I've got like a a Black Friday sale, I can put a little vid and just target it to people who already follow me. And I've seen, you know, successful conversions like that without just running any testing because I'm just putting it at my audience.
Rob: And I think that's that's really the the value in the audience that you've got as well when you do want to put something out. You can do it cost effectively and really quickly and get good results. So we're coming up on time. And I've really enjoyed this chat. For everyone who's watching or listening. Or what about where can they find you and learn about Freezma Fitness?
Freezma: Yeah, just I mean, I guess Youtube is always the best place to start, isn't it?
Rob: Just a bit of a search on Freezma Fitness.
Freezma: You know, if you really want to know me you can go on YouTube and you'll really get to know me. Go on Instagram. I guess you can still find me. But everything's just Freezma, so.
Rob: Cool. We'll put it in the show notes and thank you very much for your time. Freezma Fitness. I really appreciate your insight into social and how it's changed. And wish you all the best. And we'll chat soon.
Freezma: No worries. Thanks, Rob. Thanks for having me.
Rob: There you have it. I hope you really enjoyed this episode. And if you did, please like it. Share it or leave us a review on your favourite platform. It helps us show more of this content to people just like you.